WEEKLY WHINE

Interaction: Get outta my caves!

Myers: Hello, and welcome once again to Interaction, the programme where your thoughts matter... to you. This week, we're talking caving. The British spelunkers who visited Mexico have been sent home this week after a lengthy diplomatic row involving accusations of uranium prospecting. However, the cavers were in fact dismissed on charges of inaccurate disclosure of their trip's purpose. Were they treated unfairly? Did they get off easy? Will cavers be scared away from Mexico for good now, or will they be nice about it? I'm Debbie Myers. Joining us today are some leading figures in British and Mexican caving. Joining us in Guadalajara, the associate director of the Guadalajara Spelunking Society, Ms Pepita Sánchez.

Sánchez: Hello.

Myers: In Cuetzalán, we have a pair of transatlantic partners in caving. The CEO of Caving Supplies of Stanwick, Mr Ronald Morman.

Morman: Good evening Debbie.

Myers: And the public relations director at Caving Amongst Friends, Mr Alejandro Duziño.

Duziño: Nice to be here.

Myers: And with me here in Warwickshire is the chair of the Department of Speleology at Major Glasgow University, Ms Samura D'Zinki.

D'Zinki: Hi Debbie.

Myers: Thanks to all of you for joining us today. We'll go to you first, Pepita. The cavers said that they had already cleared their activities with the Mexican government, but Mexico denies this. What actually happened with their paperwork?

Sánchez: Well, Debbie, I'm surprised at this. The Mexican government is normally a model of efficiency. When someone files paperwork in this country, it's filed. Not like in Venezuela, where they always want a cut of your cash. So this is highly irregular.

Myers: Certainly something to consider there. Ronald, would you agree with that assessment?

Morman: Not quite. I mean, yes, Mexico has a government. But it's fairly fractioned. Sometimes the left hand doesn't always know what the left femur is doing, and this situation is just such an example. I'm sure the local authorities here in Cuetzalán knew exactly what was going on. A minor mission like this need not involve the president of Mexico, and unfortunately, President Fox spoke out before receiving all the pertinent information.

Myers: That's an important point. Alejandro, is this indicative of a shift in policy against cavers?

Duziño: It may be. Caving has always been an important activity, but unfortunately, the general population views caving with resentment and hatred, feeling that travelling underground is not a fit activity for humans. We at Caving Amongst Friends have frequently fought this view, and before long, we feel that we will have the population so excited about caving that they'll be eager to have anyone exploring their caves.

Myers: Noble sentiments there. Samura, how does this incident affect the way caving will be executed in future?

D'Zinki: Well, we're working with the British government to try and have other nations implement more caving friendly policies. Currently the UK is one of the most caving friendly nations, and we are looking forward to having all nations share in the glory of caving, an activity the whole family can enjoy.

Myers: I think we can all relate to that. Alejandro, if I can go back to you, what are the benefits of caving to the general population?

Duziño: Well, Debbie, that's painfully obvious, yet a lot of people aren't willing to listen when we try to explain them. Caving is good for healthy teeth and gums. It can increase fiber and lead to better performance in school. It can help lower your taxes and increase your red blood cell count. Spelunking is a high quality activity.

Morman: That's right Debbie. Furthermore... come on. Caves.

Myers: Pepita, the Alpazat cave complex has been a popular target for visiting spelunkers for many years. What are the peculiar challenges involved there?

Sánchez: This cave is actually fairly easy to explore in good weather, despite its expansive reaches. There are a number of places to stow one's equipment out of reach of the water and of those inefficient members of the Bangladeshi government.

Myers: Um, yes, well, we'd better move on to questions now. As usual, you at home can participate in this programme in any of several ways. There's telephone, telegraph, E-mail, snail mail, facsimile, blimp, and skywriting. Skywriting was used on one occasion this week, but the upper atmosphere winds kicked up suddenly and we couldn't read the question. So instead, we'll go to Copenhagen, Denmark, and Herna. Herna, are you there?

Herna in Copenhagen: Yes, I am, Debbie. Good evening.

Myers: Hello Herna. What is your question?

Herna in Copenhagen: I have a question about caves.

Myers: What is it?

Herna in Copenhagen: I'm thinking of visiting a cave in Germany next week. What should I bring?

Morman: Which cave?

Herna in Copenhagen: Dürbacher.

Morman: Oh, I love that one! Have you been to Slappy's?

Herna in Copenhagen: No. What's that?

Morman: It's a coffeehouse near the entrance to Dürbacher. They have a great cinnamon roll. I always get that before I go in there.

Myers: If we -

Morman: If you go there, tell Slappy that Little Ronnie said hi.

Myers: We're doing a show here.

Morman: Oh, right. Sorry.

Myers: Anyway, let's move on to another question. It's by facsimile from Mark H Jones in Hamilton, ON, Canada. Mark asks who amongst the international caving community is responsible for the rights of cavers. Alejandro, this is something that Caving Amongst Friends has spent many of its resources on, is it not?

Duziño: Absolutely. We want everyone to enjoy caving. We've spent much of the past few weeks interviewing caving specialists in various governments trying to ascertain how they treat cavers. We're currently working on a Bill of Rights for cavers.

Myers: What rights would this include?

Duziño: Well, here are the Top Ten Rights of Cavers. Ten: Clean, well managed caves. Nine: Water for all. Eight: The right to go "spe-LUNK-ing" in a singsong voice. Seven: Miners' helmets with the flashlight. Six: Showers optional. Five: If you see vandalism, you have the right to go, "Hey, that's tens of millions of years old! When you're tens of millions of years old, we'll let you do that!" Four: Exit privileges without a hand stamp. Three: The right to cave basketball shall not be infringed. Two: The right to explore caves on a tourist visa, even if you're a member of the military. And the Number One Right of Cavers: The right to giggle when somebody's fart echoes throughout the caverns.

[Pause.]

Myers: Well, that's going to have to do it for Interaction this week. Thanks to Ms Samura D'Zinki, Mr Alejandro Duziño, Mr Ronald Morman, and Ms Pepita Sánchez for being here this week. Next week we'll be discussing key issues in travel, including the US's plan to fingerprint visitors. We'll be joined by leading security experts in the US, China, and Spain, as well as someone who travels a lot. Good night.

D'Zinki: How come I didn't get to say anything?

Sánchez: You know which government is really inefficient? Tonga. That's just what I've heard.